别问“我能得到什么”
提问者：
萨古鲁，在这趟旅程中，我听你说了很多次Be with me（和我在一起）。但如果一个人没有适当的灵性练习（sadhana），没有真正耗尽他过去的业力，他是否有可能与你同在？如果可以，那要如何做到？
萨古鲁：
“Be with me”。首先，这到底是什么意思？是指想着某个人吗？是指对他产生想法和情绪吗？不是。Be with me，是把我当作一个工具，只是为了“在”（ be），仅此而已。Be with me，并不意味着你持续地想着我，或持续地产生某种情绪。你内在发生的所有心理过程——各种念头和情绪的运作——无论它们是什么，都只能用来铺路，它们不是旅程本身。
现在，你想去哥印拜陀。如果你产生了“我要去哥印拜陀”的念头，它会为你铺路。也许你会买车票，也许你会开始走路，也许你会开始朝那个方向做点什么；但光是想这件事，并不等于你已经去了，对吗？不管你想得多么强烈，你都不会因此就到了。但正是因为产生了“我要去哥印拜陀”这个念头，根据这个念头的强度，你才会多快地为自己铺好路。但这个念头永远不可能是旅程本身，它只是铺路而已。
所以，当我说“和我在一起”时，最初，它可能完全是关于你所产生的念头。这是很自然的，因为你的头脑就是这样运作的。也许，当这个念头变得足够强烈时，它会跟随情绪。如果念头和情绪对齐了——在某个时刻，你所想的和你所感受的是一致的——那它就会成为一根很强的绳索，一种很强的连接，或者说，你真的会走向那里的强大可能性。
如果你对某件事想得很强烈、感受得也很强烈，你自然就会走向那里，不是吗？不管那是什么。比如今天你想去恒河，而不是山谷。如果你既在想、又在强烈地感受它，如果你开始在脑中念“恒河、恒河、恒河”（笑），如果你的心跳也在说“恒河、恒河、恒河”，那你最终一定会到那里，对吗？那个念头本身并不会把你带到恒河，但它会在你之内产生足够的推动力，让你朝那个方向走。可不管你想得多么多，你仍然得一步一步走到恒河，对吗？所以，念头和情绪只是铺路的工具，从来不是旅程本身。这是一个非常简单的区分，但遗憾的是，大多数人并不明白这个区分。他们以为，想着某件事，就已经是在那里了。
有人告诉过你“Bhaja Govindam”是什么意思吗？没有？“Go”是牛，“Govinda”是牧牛人，是放牧牛群的人。“想着牧牛人”，意思是“想着那个牧养整个存在的人”。但这里并不是在说，你只需要想着那个牧牛人。它说的是“Moodhamate”——“愚蠢的心啊，去想着牧牛人吧”。因为只有当头脑去想着牧牛人，它才会为你铺好路，让你朝那个方向行走。所以，人们让你去想着神，并不是因为那本身就是终极实相，而是因为，通过去想，它会为你的人生设定一个方向，仅此而已。所以，当我说“和我在一起”时，并不是让你坐在那里想着我——那是一个相当糟糕的念头（笑）。
一旦你尝试进入某种状态、某种空间，一种可能性就已经变成了“活的因素”。它不再只是一个念头，而是一种真实存在的可能性，一种能量的投入已经发生了。遗憾的是，在这个世界上，很多心理练习被当成了灵性过程，而其中并没有生命的投入，没有生命的激活，一切都只是念头和情绪。这只会停留在心理层面。所谓心理过程，就是你的创造，对吗？如果你过度沉浸在自己的创造之中，你自然就会错过造物者的创造——这正是现在正在发生的事情。不管你是在想着萨古鲁、神、魔鬼，还是别的什么，都没区别；如果你陷入过多的心理过程，那就是你的创造。如果你迷恋上了自己的创造，你就会错过造物者的创造。
如果你真正去看，这正是痛苦的唯一来源，也是人们困惑的唯一来源。困惑只存在于你的头脑中，对吗？创造本身并没有困惑。困惑只在头脑里，因为你对心理过程赋予了过多的重要性。那是你的创造。当你的创造变得如此重要时，你自然就与造物者的创造彻底脱节了。也就是说，你正在从现实走向幻觉。不管这个幻觉是关于神、上师、电影、金钱，还是别的什么，都没有区别。不管这是一个美梦还是噩梦，它们本质上是一样的——你在与不真实纠缠。
所以，Be with me，并不是想着我，不是对我产生情绪，而只是单纯地存在。一旦你犯了这个错误，坐在这样的场合里（你现在走也可以）（笑），如果你允许自己存在，那你只能与我在一起，没有别的方式。你想什么、不想什么，真的并不重要。也许在铺路的意义上有点关系，是的——你想什么、你感受什么，往往就是你会去的方向。但在存在层面上，它并没有什么意义。你去想某件事，本身并没有任何存在性的实质，它完全是心理层面的。
那要如何与我同在？你所知道的“在”的方式，只有看、听、专注。现在，对你们当中的许多人来说，如果我说“Be with me”，你们做的第一件事就是闭上眼睛。这并不是你在脑子里刻意盘算：“好，现在闭眼肯定比睁眼更有境界。” 这样是行不通的。闭眼只是因为，你原本认为是外在的东西，已经变成了内在的，于是你自然就闭上了眼睛。如果这是自然发生的，那没问题；如果你是在模仿，那就是在浪费生命。
灵性修行的问题就在这里：某个人那样做了，于是所有人都想照着做。但通过模仿某个行为，灵性过程是不会发生的。释迦牟尼那样坐着，一动不动；你也这样坐着——没用。柴坦尼亚·玛哈帕布（Chaitanya Mahaprabhu）跳舞，你也跟着跳——没用。另一个人一生都在工作，你也那样做——没用。还有很多神秘家做过各种奇怪的事，你去模仿，也没用。
有一天，阿迪·商羯罗（Adi Shankara）像往常一样走着，他的弟子们跟在后面。他们经过一个村庄，那里有一家卖自酿酒的店。阿迪·商羯罗走进去，端起一罐酒，一口喝光，然后继续往前走。弟子们在后面开始议论：“古鲁在喝酒，我们怎么能不喝？”如果他在喝，那一定是对的，对吧？
到了下一个村庄，这些人全都冲进酒铺喝酒，摇摇晃晃地跟在他后面。商羯罗回头一看（笑），发现弟子们的腿像橡皮一样软，走得东倒西歪。到了再下一个村庄，他走进铁匠铺，那里有一锅熔化的铁水。商羯罗舀起铁水，喝下去，然后继续走。这时弟子们全都站直了（笑）——这件事他们可不想模仿（笑）。
所以，仅仅模仿行为，是你无法“在”的主要原因。从你小时候起，人们就教你去效仿别人。这正是人无法 “在”的根本原因。尤其是媒体来采访时，他们会问：“你的偶像是谁？”我说：“那是什么？我从没听说过这种东西。”他们还坚持问：“谁是你的榜样？”那意思就是：你模仿谁？（笑）也许他们想问的是谁启发了你。孩子在成长过程中，没有榜样是最重要的——尤其重要的是，这个榜样别是你（笑）。
我们总以为必须树立一个榜样。一旦你树立了榜样，那就是在拼命想成为另一个人。在这种努力中，一个人“存在”的自然品质就完全丧失了。他总是在拼命想成为自己以外的东西，这剥夺了他单纯存在的能力。这是一个我经常被问到的问题，尤其来自年纪较大、拼命想要变得灵性的人。他们听过无数《薄伽梵歌》的讲解，听过吠檀多，自认为比克里希那还懂。他们来到这里，看着周围，过了一段时间后发现：这些对灵性一窍不通的年轻人，个个都在蹦啊跳啊，欢欣雀跃，而他们只是坐在那里观看。
这个问题我被问过无数次：“我做了这么多，我一生都想要这个，可是什么都没有发生。我看着这些年轻人，他们什么都不懂，却飞起来了，这是为什么？”（笑）问题就在这里：你拼命想成为你不是的那个人，而这恰恰摧毁了你本来的样子。你有太多榜样，太多模仿。模仿意味着大量的计算，对吗？你永远不可能完全模仿一个人，而且你还想在模仿的基础上再“改进”一下，对吗？所以，模仿必然伴随着巨大的计算。一旦这种计算出现，你就无法“在”了。
学习如何“在”的一个简单方法，就是丢掉这种计算：“我能从这场Satsang得到什么？”把它丢掉。你不必得到任何东西。真的，你可以浪费半天时间，然后回家（笑）。同样，“我从冥想中能得到什么？”——什么也得不到。每天就浪费15到20分钟。所以，不要冥想，只是学会浪费一点时间。什么都不需要发生。这不是为了休息，不是为了健康，不是为了开悟，不是为了上天堂。这只是单纯地浪费时间。当你不再试图成为什么、不再试图去哪里时，你就在“在”了。
这是现代人的语言：“今天这场Satsang有什么‘干货总结’？”（笑）如果你寻找“干货总结”，你只能带走一些鸡毛蒜皮的东西，真正重要的东西永远不会跟你走。如果你想要真正的东西，就停止总结干货。单纯地“在”。什么都不需要发生。
因为人们没有必要的觉知力来简单地存在，于是有人提出了一个替代方案：去爱。这是因为在“爱”这个状态中，在某种程度上，你可以不去计算“我要得到什么”。但通常这并不是真的。即便你以为自己在爱，如果对方没有给你“应该给的东西”，一切都会崩塌，不是吗？通常，一段恋爱只是一个互惠计划（笑）：“你给我这个，我给你那个；你不给我那个，我就不给你这个。”对吗？
所有关于培养“深层的爱”或“慈悲”的说法，本质上只是为了去掉“我能得到什么”的期待。通过对某个人产生强烈的情感，头脑暂时停止计算：“我为什么要这么做？我能得到什么？”仅此而已。否则，这些本身并没有什么意义。所以，今天不打包任何“干货”，可以吗？你什么也得不到。“那这是我最后一次来Satsang了吗？”（笑）是的，因为“如果我什么都得不到，我来这里干嘛？”——这就是你头脑的运作方式，请你看清这一点。
事情就是这么简单。如果你放下这一条计算——“我能得到什么？”——百分之九十的工作已经完成了。剩下的百分之十会自然发生。你知道“蛇梯棋”吗？会有很多梯子，也会有很多蛇，上上下下。但一旦你踩上最后一格，就再也没有蛇了。你只需要再走一步、再一步，你就到了，对吗？再也没有蛇把你吞掉。这就是这样。如果你放下“我能得到什么”这一个计算，之后就再也没有蛇了。
这只是时间问题，你一定会到达。如果在你生命中的一切事情上，“我能得到什么”都被丢下，那意味着你会变得真正无边无际、彻底充满慈悲。没有别的路。你只需要丢下这一条简单的计算，因为它是整个头脑运作的关键，是一切心理活动的总开关。你只要把这个插头拔掉，一切就结束了。“在”就自然发生了。还能怎么存在呢？你此刻本来就在存在，只是因为太多心理活动，你错过了它，对吗？你无法“努力”去“在”，那行不通。你只需要把这个插头拔掉——“我能得到什么？”至少，把它调低一点，如果你还做不到彻底拔掉。只要调低它，你就会发现，你已经“在”了。
——摘自《Himalayan Lust》
Drop the ‘What Will I Get?’
Seeker: Sadhguru, I’ve heard you say, ‘Be with me,’ quite a few times on this journey. But is it possible for any one to be with you without proper sadhana, without really exhausting his old karmas? And if yes, then how?
Sadhguru: ‘Being with me’. First of all, what does it mean? Is it about thinking about someone? Is it about generating thoughts and emotions about them? No. Being with me is about using me as a tool just to be, that’s all. Being with me does not mean you have continuous thought or continuous emotion. The psychological processes, all the play of thought and emotions that happens within you, whatever it may be, can only be a means of paving the way. It is not the journey.
Now, you want to go to Coimbatore; if you generate thoughts about going to Coimbatore, it will pave the way. Maybe you will buy a ticket; maybe you will start walking; maybe you will start doing something in that direction; but thinking about it by itself is not going, isn’t it? It doesn’t matter how much you think about it, you don’t go. But by thinking about it, you pave the way. Only because a thought – ‘I want to go to Coimbatore’ – has come, depending upon how strong that thought is, that quickly you pave your way. But the thought can never be the journey; it is only paving the way.
So when I say, ‘Be with me,’ initially it may be all about the thought that you generate. Naturally, because that’s the way your mind operates. Maybe if the thought becomes strong, it gets followed by emotion. If thought and emotion align with each other, what you are thinking and what you are emoting at a certain time are together, then it becomes a strong rope, a strong connection with something, or a strong possibility that you will go there.
If you are thinking and feeling strongly about something, you will naturally go there. Isn’t it so? Whatever that is. Now today you want to go to the Ganges, not the valleys. If you are thinking and also feeling strongly about it, if you start thinking, ‘Ganges, Ganges, Ganges’ (Laughter), and if your heart starts beating, ‘Ganges, Ganges, Ganges’, invariably you will end up there, isn’t it? That thought itself doesn’t take you there, but it gives the necessary impetus in you to move in that direction. Still you have to walk to the Ganges. However much you think about it you will not end up in Ganges, isn’t it? So thought and emotion are just instruments to pave the way, but never the journey. This is a simple distinction but unfortunately most people do not get this distinction. They think that thinking about something is already being there.
Somebody told you what ‘Bhaja Govindam’ means? No? ‘Go’ means cow, and Govinda is one who herds the cows, a cowherd. ‘Think of the cowherd’ means ‘the one who herds the existence’. Now it is not being said that you only need to think about the cowherd. It says ‘Moodhamate’: “Foolish mind, think about the cowherd”. Because only if the mind thinks about the cowherd, will it pave the way for you to walk in that direction. So people asked you to think about God not because it is a reality, but because by thinking about it, it will set a direction to your life, that’s all. So when I say, ‘Be with me’, I am not telling you sit there and think about me. That’s a pretty bad thought. (Laughter)
Once you have made an attempt to be in a certain space, a certain possibility has become a live factor. It is no more a thought. There is a certain live possibility. A certain investment of energy has been made. Unfortunately, psychological exercises on the planet are just passing off as spiritual processes, where there is no investment of life, where there is no activation of life. It is all about thought and emotion. It will just go on as a psychological process. Psychological process means it is your creation. Yes? Isn’t it your creation? If you get too involved in your own creation, you will miss the Creator’s creation, obviously. That’s what is happening right now. Whether you are thinking about Sadhguru or God or the Devil, it doesn’t matter; if you get into too much of psychological process, it is your creation. If you get too enamored with your own creation, you will miss the Creator’s creation.
This is the only source of misery if you really look at it. This is the only source of confusion in people. Confusion is only in your mind, isn’t it? There is no confusion in the creation. Confusion is only in the mind because you have attached too much importance to the psychological process. It is your creation. When your creation has gained so much significance, naturally you get completely dislocated from the Creator’s creation. That means that from reality, you are moving into the hallucinatory. Whether the hallucination is about God or guru or cinema or money or whatever, it doesn’t matter. Whether it is a good hallucination or a bad hallucination, whether you are having a wonderful dream or a nightmare, they are the same, isn’t it? You are getting entangled with the unreal.
So being with me is not thinking about me, not emoting about me, but simply being. Once you made this mistake of sitting in situations like this (you can leave even now!) (Laughs), if you allow yourself to be, you can only be with me. There is no other way. Whether you think about me or you think about something, it really is not of great consequence. Maybe in terms of paving the way; yes. What you think about and what you feel about is where you naturally go. In that context, yes. But existentially, it doesn’t mean anything. You thinking about something doesn’t mean anything, because it has no existential substance to it. It is purely psychological.
So how to be with me? The only way you know how to be is to see, to hear, to be focused. Now for many of you over a period of time, if I say, ‘Be with me,’ the first thing you do is close your eyes. This you don’t do consciously: ‘Okay, now closing my eyes is superior to opening my eyes.’ It will not work that way. It is just that what you held as external has become internal. Naturally, you close your eyes. If it happens naturally, it’s fine. If you pretend, it is a waste of life.
The problem with spiritual processes is just this: somebody did that, so everybody wants to do that. By imitating that act, the spiritual process will not happen. Now, Gautama sat like this, absolutely still. You try to sit like this – it won’t work. Chaitanya Mahaprabhu danced, so you dance like him – it won’t help. Somebody else worked all his life through, so you do that – it won’t help. There are many other mystics who did many freaky things. If you do it, it won’t help.
On a certain day, Adi Shankara was walking as usual and his disciples were walking behind him. They were passing through a village and there was a shop which was selling arrack, the locally brewed liquor. Adi Shankara just walked in, took a pot full of arrack, just drank it up and walked on. Then the disciples were walking behind him and the discussions started among them: ‘Our guru is drinking; why are we missing out?’ If he is drinking, that means it is the right thing, yes?
The next village came and all these guys ran into the arrack shop and drank, and they were wobbling behind him. So Adi Shankara saw in the rearview mirror (Laughter) that his disciples had rubbery legs and were walking in a wobbly way. When the next village came, he went to the blacksmith’s shop. There the blacksmith had molten iron. Shankara just picked it up, drank it, and walked on. Now they all straightened up. (Laughter) This they don’t want to do. (Laughs)
So just imitating an act is the main reason why you are unable to be. Right from your childhood they have told you to emulate somebody else. This is the main reason why people can’t be, you know. Especially the press people, when they come, they ask, ‘Who is your role model?’ I say, ‘What is that? I never heard of anything like that. What is a role model?’ ‘No, no,’ they insist. ‘Who is your role model?’ That means whom do you imitate? (Laughs) Or who inspired you? Maybe that’s what they are asking. It’s most important that your children grow up without a role model. And it’s especially important that it’s not you. (Laughter)
We always think we must set up a role model. If you set up a role model, that’s a desperate effort to be something other than what you are. In this effort, this natural quality of being is completely lost in a human being. He is always desperately trying to be something other than what he is, which takes away his ability to simply be. Generally, this is a common question that keeps coming to me, particularly from the older generation of people, who have desperately been trying to be spiritual. They’ve been to all the Gita discourses; they’ve heard Vedanta; they’ve heard many things. They believe they know all these things better than Krishna himself. But they come here and they look around and see. After some time, they realize these young people who don’t know a damn thing about any spirituality are jumping and flying away, but they are just sitting and watching.
This question comes to me any number of times. ‘I have done so much. I have always wanted this in my life. Nothing is happening to me. I can see these young boys and girls. They don’t know a damn thing, but they are flying away. What is it?’ (Laughs) This is all the problem is; you are desperately trying to be something other than who you are, which just destroys the very way you are. Role models you have; too much imitation has gone into you. Imitation involves tremendous calculation, isn’t it? If you want to imitate somebody, you can never imitate anybody totally. You want to improve upon your imitation too, isn’t it? So imitation involves tremendous calculation. Once this calculation comes, you cannot be.
One simple way of learning to be is you just drop this one calculation, ‘What can I get out of this satsangh?’ You just drop that. You don’t have to get anything, okay? You don’t have to benefit from this. Just waste half a day and go. (Laughter) Really. ‘What should I get out of my meditation?’ Nothing. Just waste fifteen-twenty minutes every day. So do not meditate; just learn to waste some time. Nothing needs to happen. This is not about resting; this is not about becoming healthy; this is not about becoming enlightened; this is not about reaching heaven. All this is just wasting time. When you are not trying to be anything, not trying to get anywhere, you are being.
This is all modern terminology: ‘What is the ‘take-away’ from today’s satsangh?’ (Laughter) If you look for ‘take-away’, you will only take petty things; the real thing will never come with you. If you want the real thing, stop the ‘take-away’ business. Simply be. Nothing needs to happen.
See, because people do not have the necessary awareness to simply be, an alternative was suggested, which is you just be in love. This is because this is one state where, to some extent, you can be without a take-away. But that’s not true, generally. Even though you think you are in love with somebody, if they don’t give what they are supposed to give, it will all crack up. Isn’t it so? Generally, a love affair is just a mutual benefit scheme, isn’t it? (Laughter) ‘You give me this, I will give you that. If you don’t give me that, I won’t give you this.’ Yes or no?
All these talks about developing a deep sense of love or compassion are only towards the end of taking away the expectation. ‘What should I get?’ is being removed by creating a strong sense of emotion towards somebody. Otherwise, the mind is calculating, ‘That’s okay, why should I do this? What will I get?’ It’s just to remove that, that’s all. Otherwise, by itself it doesn’t mean anything. So, no take-away today. Is it okay? You won’t get anything. ‘So is this the last satsangh I will come to?’ (Laughter) Yes. Because, ‘If I don’t get anything, what the hell am I doing here?’ That’s the nature of your mind, please see.
It is so simple. If you drop this one calculation – ‘what will I get?’ – ninety per cent of the work is over. Do you understand? Another ten per cent will happen by itself. You know the ‘snakes and ladders’ game? Many ladders, many snakes, many up-and-down journeys will happen. But once you hit the last rung, no more snakes. You just have to take one step and then another and another, and you are there, isn’t it? But no more snakes to eat you up. This is just like that. If you just drop this one calculation of ‘what can I get’, after that, no more snakes!
It is just a question of time. You will get there. If from everything in your life, ‘what can I get’, is dropped, it means you will become really boundless and absolutely compassionate in your life. There is no other way. You just have to drop this one simple calculation, because that is the key to your whole mind and your mental process. That is the key to all the activity that’s happening in the mind. You just pull the plug, and it’s over. Then being is just natural. How else to be? You are only being even now; you are missing it because of too much psychological activity, isn’t it? You can’t try to be; it doesn’t work. You just have to pull this one plug, ‘What can I get?’ At least lower it, if you can’t pull it out totally. Just lower that and you will see, you will be.
— Himalayan Lust